@WAI0731 Can buzz only be used to buy decorations and not converted into money?

@WAI0731 @WAI0731 Just because the site roles out a feature, doesn't mean you have to jump on it... your actions are effectively enabling CivitAI to wring money out of impatient people while irritating everyone else.

Why not establish a method for people to donate directly to you (patreon, KoFI, etc) if you're in a rush to get buzz? You can just purchase the buzz directly with those donations and it'll benefit you in the long run... especially if CivitAI decides to alter the exchange rate at which it buys back buzz, or if they become insolvent while messing around with the money people paid them for the buzz.

I'm not frustrated with you for being greedy, I'm frustrated because you're playing into a stupid system.

Early Access is "annoying", but it's entirely psychological and functionally no different from... having the model release a few days later. Except now the creator gets something for their time and energy in the interim. Model creators are, by and large, doing almost everything completely for free as a hobby, and if they want to use Early Access to be "rewarded" with something nonsensical like a badge or a shiny avatar border, then so be it. FFS people complain about the most asinine stuff.

@Mneme You seem to be missing the part where "creators" in this context are just manipulating groupings of other people's original creations in an algorithm box and tuning/tweaking parameters associated with that algorithm box.

The idea that they should be able to derive profit in general is a sketchy premise to begin with.

I'm looking forward to the lawsuits that will ensue when monetization formally begins.

One thing you have right about this is that it should purely be a hobby. The only form of income that should ever occur with any of this is donations.

at least this one a new update/release, probably more pronounced but similar to early-access for premium civitai back then.
you can see the bad example of this early-access thingy in other models, they start to re-upload model and put it in early access, and probably repeat that indefinitely.

@WAI0731 這麼做才是對的，這個網站上的收益和訓練模型的開支根本不成比例

Shame on you.

1. No one is required to pay buzz to access this model if they don't want to. They can simply wait till the open release date and forgo having early access.

2. There is no monetary value to buzz and their likely never will be. The loopholes throughout various countries, especially the one where Civitai is located, would make it almost impossible, so you are using a false argument there.

3. When called out on the merits of your argument, you resulted in attacking the creativity involved in creating a model like this, as if it involves just randomly "manipulating" other models. If that is all there is too it, we eagerly await the release of your better model.

@g0t0s0da lol. No offense, but you need to think and read a bit more before you try to "white knight" stuff on the internet. I'm not some antagonist to @WAI0731. I actually appreciate his or her work. My complaint is that he or she jumped onto a gimmick CivitAI started which I think will ruin the site.

Since then, they have changed their ways, and I'll recant part of my earlier statements. I respect the move away from forcing early access buzz purchases on model releases.

To address your bullets:

1. You did not refute my point on the topic. (That CivitAI is attempting to capitalize on it's user's impatience to incite more people to purchase buzz, and that playing into the early access model aids them in incentivizing people to purchase buzz, and that that course of action and what it entails will eventually just ruin the site.)

2. You don't know what you're talking about... Here's a quote: "Creators get 100% of the Buzz spent on their resource. As previously stated, we'll be opening the creator program soon to allow users to sell their Buzz back to Civitai for real money." This quote is from the article hosted on the following CivitAI page: "https://civitai.com/articles/6341?highlight=445807&commentParentType=article&commentParentId=6341&threadId=1254514#comments"

3. I've made no claim of capability regarding this "skill set", I've simply identified that the "skill set" is fundamentally predicated on exploiting other people's work. I then followed that detail with a generally accepted claim (implication of lawsuits) that people shouldn't be able to profit from others works without the original creator either permitting it or getting a share of the proceeds.

This comment is insane on so many levelsXD

@MadeThisToPost What is the weather like up there on your high horse? Lets; start with your core mistake:

"just manipulating groupings of other people's original creations in an algorithm box and tuning/tweaking parameters associated with that algorithm box." your "just" implies that this is not time consuming and creative work. It is. Do it yourself and do it well enough that people actually want it and then get back to us.

"My complaint is that he or she jumped onto a gimmick CivitAI started which I think will ruin the site."
It is not a gimmick. It is a way to keep the site going. Nothing is free in this world and it would be silly to excpect both Civitai and the artists invovled to just hand out stuff to you for free. And it is not like they are asking for a huge burden. The system is basicallly asking for a person to either take advantage of an opportunity for early acess, not required, offered, or they can simply be patient and get the model for free.

"Creators get 100% of the Buzz spent on their resource. As previously stated, we'll be opening the creator program soon to allow users to sell their Buzz back to Civitai for real money." Yes and if you have read comment from creators, you are looking a pittance that might buy you a few coffees. The horror! If consistantly good creators can use thhis system as a way to afford more time to be spent on their work, then we all win.

And again, the most important fact you seem intent on ignoring is that no one is required to participate. If you can spare 500Buzz for a peiece of work you really like, then just wait a few day and it is yours FREE

Worst of all is how you targeted this artist and checkpoint to crusade on. There is aplace for these rants in articles. Take your disdain and move on

@g0t0s0da I'll say it again. This isn't the final form of "paying for access"... this is a step on the path to pay walling stuff. (Not that you even addressed that point since you just wanted to say dumb stuff)

- Newsflash, I don't have to be a creator to comment on anything. Your statement is irrelevant and just digression that would change the topic if I ever bothered to rise to the occasion.

- Early Access is a gimmick... Websites have plenty of other ways to monetize their site without diminishing the service they provide to their users.

- Also, you can't simultaneously act like its a pittance and beneath being concerned over, then also say it helps the creators. Pick one.

Maybe if I say it in all caps this time someone will get my main concern here...

CIVITAI IS NOT GOING TO STOP WITH EARLY ACCESS. THIS WILL PROGRESS INTO MORE WAYS TO OBSTRUCT ACCESS TO CONTENT CENTERED AROUND COERCING USERS TO PAY CIVITAI FOR ACCESS TO HOSTED CONTENT. THIS IS NOT NECESSARY TO SUSTAIN THE CIVITAI SITE AND WILL HARM SITE TRAFFIC IN THE LONG RUN.

@MadeThisToPost Wowzers, we have reached all caps and personal insult territory now. I will just reply and then back out of this for good. Feel free to get the last word in which I get the feeling you will insist on. Let's start from last to first this time:

1. "CIVITAI IS NOT GOING TO STOP WITH EARLY ACCESS. THIS WILL PROGRESS INTO MORE WAYS TO OBSTRUCT ACCESS TO CONTENT CENTERED AROUND COERCING USERS TO PAY CIVITAI FOR ACCESS...

uhm, so what?
It would be absurd and unrealistic to expect Civitai to continue offering this huge collection models, articles and the use of their rendering engine for free. Nor is it fair to expect people to be putting in the hours to create this work for free. So far CIVITAI have found creative ways to address this that are totally OPTIONAL for users. Nothing is obstructed and you have no clue what Civitai will or will not do in the future and Wai certainly doesn't.

2. "you can't simultaneously act like its a pittance and beneath being concerned over, then also say it helps the creators"

Sure you can, one does not nullify the other in any way. I have never purchased a single buzz, yet i have more than enough to do any rendering i need or to purchase any early offering i might want. zero cost. Also, when you look at how much real money a creator makes from buzz, it a pittance. 1000 buzz = $1US. Very successful creators CAN come away from their model downloads with around $500-$700. Hardly a windfall but certainly could help them free up some time to continue improving their offerings.

3. Early Access is a gimmick... Websites have plenty of other ways to monetize their site without diminishing the service they provide to their users.

Here you directly argue for the thing you rail against in your all-cap ranting. SHould they use other methods to make a profit, or not? Early access is not a gimmick. In it an optional method of presenting your work that is totally voluntary on both ends. You the creator can choose to offer something early, or not. You the consumer can choose to purchase this model, or you can simply wait a few days and get it free. If Civitai where to make early access apply to every model acros the board, i would be totally fine with that. I can opt to participate, or just wait.

4. "I don't have to be a creator to comment on anything. Your statement is irrelevant and just digression that would change the topic"

No one said you had to be a creator to comment. Off course you don't, But my comment is acually the most RELEVANT part of my comment and I will end by repeating it:

Choosing to single out Wai and drop your rants on her review comments is a d--ck move all the way around. You should apologize to Wai and take your strong feelings about all this and share them over in articles which is where they belong. That is exactly what that forum is for. Stop attacking creators on their product pages when they have nothing to do with what you have been winging on and on about. STOP.

Unearned garbage, no one will care about you

@bobby_socks you cared enough to respond. So did the others... That being said, I realized I'm arguing with bootlickers and paypigs... So I'll just stop here.

I'm not familiar with the mechanics of this website; I'm just using it to download models for SD purposes. Therefore, I can't fully grasp the topic you're discussing. However, in my opinion, to be frank, your tone seems overly arrogant, which would make anyone uncomfortable